Author

Topic:   For all the experts here! - 4228 visits (2 today, 4 this week)

carl brown
Member


Posts: 69
From:kansas city ks.
Registered: Dec 2005

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 05:49 AM            

Can someone offer some expertise on what is happening to this house?

http://www.geocities.com/myllamas/CCFL/pulte.htm

Scott Patterson
Member



Posts: 3956
From:Spring Hill, TN ( Nashville)
Registered: Mar 2001

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 07:21 AM            

Pulte is a very large national home builder with deep pockets and lots of insurance. Of course with all of that comes a team of staff attorneys. It sounds like this person's attorney is not very aggressive and might not have the experience needed for a case like this. The owner should not be the one talking to Pulte, the attorney should be doing the talking and setting any appointments for inspections. A trial date needs to be set, enough of the talking with the Pulte attorney, let the Judge and Jury decide. Their attorney is bluffing and sounds like he/she might be a better poker player.

Once a trial date is set, chances are that Pulte will want to talk at the settlement table. They do not want to go to a public trial.

Without seeing anything in person, I could only say that based on the photos the home is experiencing structural foundation problems.

[This message has been edited by Scott Patterson (edited December 30, 2006).]

Susan Sabin
New Member


Posts: 6
From:Lenexa, KS
Registered: Dec 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 08:37 AM            

Unfortunately, all but one new builder in the United States (KB Homes) has a clause in the sales contract that if there are disputes the only method that can be used is binding arbitration. In the sales contract I signed, it also states that Pulte hires the arbitration firm. Since arbitration firms are private, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who would win in a case, the company that gives a multitude of business or one individual. However, after saying that, in eight years, 6 people have won in arbitration nation wide. - a very small number and they won mostly because the clause that was written in regard to arbitration by the builder was poorly written. Pulte having been there and done that, are well versed and know how to cite this in their sales contract. I have found since my quest began that this practice is considered predatory lending and is against the law. However, there are so many building lobbyists on the hill in D.C., this is often overlooked. Then again and another thread all together, predatory lending and mortgage fraud is the new white collar crime and I know for a fact that HUD, the FTC and the FBI are very interested in this.

I had an attorney and that is what the builder wants. My attorney would correspond in written format requesting information and asking questions and the builder would write back with some off the wall information that hardly pertained to the information. After about 3 of these letters, it was obvious Pulte was only trying to drain my finances.

I have found being a homeowner out of control, has been more helpful in the quest to get them to admit there is a problem, which they are still denying. This house is becoming unsafe and if there is a heavy snow it is probable the truss over the garage can cause damage since there are 4 broken boards at this time supporting it. The local Pulte vp of construction told me there is no safety problem and he would feel comfortable with his family living in the house. Of course I have heard this rhetoric before yet no one has offered to move in. (LOL) I have to laugh or else I would lose my mind.

Some of the local city and county agencies I have contacted are not wanting to get involved because it is possible there are a multitude of people that should have noticed things and didn't. There is a lot of finger pointing going on right now.

I may sound frustrated and some days I am, but right now I am sure Pulte is going to do the right thing which they have professed from the beginning but have yet to see, and will buy this piece of junk back. When all is said and done I will be a big proponent of a lemon law for houses to protect people like me who have legitimate complaints against builders who believe they are above the law.

I apologize for going off onto a tangent. It is difficult to get away from this situation because I have to live in it - day after day.

I do appreciate any information, advice and/or assistance in this matter. I grow more knowledgable every day. Thank you

[This message has been edited by Susan Sabin (edited December 30, 2006).]

Scott Patterson
Member



Posts: 3956
From:Spring Hill, TN ( Nashville)
Registered: Mar 2001

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 09:09 AM            

Hi Susan,

You have a mess. But you know what, contracts can be broken. I have seen judges through contracts out the window. If you were not given proper time to read, understand and question the contract; or if you had no other option but to sign the contract, I have seen judges toss them out. With the past history of Pulte, I would thin that this should be a fairly easy obstacle to overcome.

As for binding arbitration, well this can also work in your favor as well. But you need an attorney to advise you.

I have been working as an EW on a new construction case for the past 26 months. It has been scheduled for trial 3 times and it is now set for trial this summer. Delay tactics have been used by the builder to wear the owners of the home down, but it is not working. It is a very expensive process, but the owners in this case have the necessary funds to keep it going longer than the builder.

Your situation is really not that uncommon, and if you can get it to court or possible arbitration you can win.

The really sad part about this is that it is going to cost you a good deal of money, unless you can find an attorney to take it on a contingency basis.

Jack Ahern
Member


Posts: 68
From:Needham, Ma
Registered: Sep 2005

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 11:14 AM            

Wow!! These horror stories should be shared by all the brothers and sisters in the HI family. They should be required reading and extensively studied by any new and old students. A home inspector sometimes inspects new houses!
Toll Brothers got front page "above the fold" coverage for several days for some substandard work!! Boston Globe May 2001. Most of the ASHI-NE inspectors will not accept an inspection opportunity regarding a Toll Bros. house. Instant lawsuit!!
After reading the statement, my input. "Get the best lawyer you can afford. Pulty has plenty of money to hire good attys and wait you out. Keep measuring the damages-get a structural engineer involved.
Pulty probably built a decent house on the wrong lot. This will not correct itself. Probably end up in a court battle. Does the town have any comments? Corps of Engineers? State Building Commission?"
This might be an opportunity for a good Home Inspector School to document this mess and make some case studies.
This looks like a slow earthquake!

------------------
Jack Ahern Needham
on the Charles and Bridgton,Maine
Member ASHI ICC SPREI

===================================

Books-Reports-Scheduling-Tools

Jack Feldmann
Member



Posts: 3293
From:Knoxville, TN
Registered: Mar 2001

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 02:51 PM            

I agree with the others. This is obviously a huge mess.
JF

John Cialini
Member


Posts: 162
From:Thorndale, PA.
Registered: Oct 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted December 30, 2006 04:06 PM            

This is a very difficult problem, I'm afraid she will have to move out soon by the way that basement floor is moving. The copper joints can only take so much, how about the stress on the electric lines etc? There's going to be leaks. How could you ever make this house 100% again? Pulte sounds like a real jacka**.

Mike Schulz
Member


Posts: 545
From:Fuquay Varina, NC
Registered: Jan 2003

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 07, 2007 05:15 PM            

Sounds like you need to pull out the big guns and get national media involved. Call 60 minutes or talk show, call Oprah or similar show. National attention will get them moving and hurt there pocket books.

John Cialini
Member


Posts: 162
From:Thorndale, PA.
Registered: Oct 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 07, 2007 05:33 PM            

Everyone should read this article about this house condition. it's unbelievable but pics don't lie.

here are some more links with additional pics http://www.geocities.com/myllamas/CCFL/nextlot/house.htm
http://www.geocities.com/myllamas/CCFL/nextlot/lot.htm

Wen Myrick
Member


Posts: 707
From:Sacramento Ca.
Registered: May 2004

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 08, 2007 01:20 PM            

Hello Susan..........

Wow........I feel for you...
By the way did you notice the unsupported water line says right on it not intended for PRESSURE ?

Out of curiosity is this home the last on the street? Or close to it? The reason I ask is because I have seen many @ the end of a run in a state of mish mash, scrap wood, brace lacking Construction.
It seems to me that the theory of a spring below is a definate possibility especially based on the height of the grading. It's just odd that the cracks in your basement show no signs of efflourescence yet. My thought would be the neighbors home is over or closer to the spring. Your grading is simply giving way to the water source, which should have been disclosed to you by Pulte, BEFORE you signed. That spring didn't miraculously appear! It had to have wreaked Havoc for the Heavy equipment operators when the ground was broken.

Where are the geo-technical records from Pulte's purchase of this Land?
The results of the soil samples?

You are doing an excellent job of maintaining records. Make sure you have an Atty that is building savy so you don't have to waste valuable dollars educating them on building verbage.

I have to agree that Media coverage is the best way to go...
Speaking of going....I personally would move. The speed this home is shifting and the fact it has Gas appliances scares the daylight out of Me.
You may not have to worry about falling down those stairs....You may just wake up in your Bed IN the basement, or worse yet, You may wake as you are blown through your own roof.

My best to You,
~Wen~

BARRY ADAIR
Member


Posts: 559
From:Land of Gar, TX
Registered: May 2001

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 08, 2007 06:51 PM            

More builder horror stories!
http://www.hobb.org/
http://www.hadd.com/

------------------
badair

life is the random lottery of events followed by numerous narrow escapes

ADAIR INSPECTION TREC # 4563
EDI: EIFS-MA TX # 39

http://www.adairinspection.com/

===================================

Books-Reports-Scheduling-Tools

Susan Sabin
New Member


Posts: 6
From:Lenexa, KS
Registered: Dec 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 17, 2007 07:41 AM            

Scott. You are right. It is horrific there are other people that are experiencing defective housing construction. Unfortunately many big companies are getting away with it making it really bad for those who build good, solid and safe houses.

Jack. I had an attorney and all he did was use my money at an enormous rate and gave me nothing. No attorney will take it on a contingency because they will in their words, 'not make any money'. I have found that doing it myself by writing, emailing, and using my web site to be better. I have been on local television and I have something in the works right now - which will remain a surprise for the time being.

I get an enormous amount of email and I believe one housing inspector is using my home for class instruction. I also would give tours. I have my power-point presentation taped all over the house. It is a bit annoying to me and constantly reminds me of the type of home I live in, but is worthwhile during tours.

John. I am concerned about the all of the pipes. The copper pipes are bending, the plastic water and sewage pipes are being pushed up. I did have Pulte change the rigid gas pipe to the furnace to a flexible one on the advice of my structural engineer. Pulte's work order stated something to the effect that I was a bit paranoid and thought something might happen so they patronized me and changed it. My engineer told me that two things would happen if the pipe was not changed - I could die from carbon monoxide or the house would blow up - neither good options.

Wen. This house is on the corner. There is one other lot on this corner besides mine. I have posted pictures of the lost to show people that the house was not finished. I can never prove it, but I know the builder knew there was a problem because they didn't finish the lot next door. Oh yes, the builder has over 650 houses to sell in this development.

Now the property east of me was once part of the parcel where the house stands. A corps of engineer flyer was sent to me in December stating they were going to fill in a couple of ponds and the surrounding wetlands to the east so they could build on the property. An aeiral photo shows my property was mostly under a canopy so I can't tell about the lay of the land or if was part of the wetlands. I know the house was graded, basement dug, poured, backfilled and framed in a small time span. I signed 7 Jan., the basement was in by February and by 23 March, it was entirely framed.

There have been four structural engineering inspections. One on 11 Sept, 11 oct, 8 Dec and 4 January. The damage is increasing at an alarming rate. A core sampling was conducted on 8 December and even though the company has forwarded the report to the builder, as of today I have not received anything. I have not received their structural engineer report of 8 Dec either. You can see by the numbers on the laser readings, there is a problem, a big problem.

The last structural engineer inspection made by insurance company (who BTW says no claims can be filed on the house and even though I will continue to pay insurance nothing will be covered (except personal goods)) told me he is concerned about the stair way and can't believe it hasn't been shored up. I told him, "the carpet will catch me", and he looked at me like I was crazy.

You all can see the 'repairs' Pulte has done. (I updated the site - http://www.geocities.com/myllamas/CCFL/pulte.htm" ) This is the only thing that pulte has offered to fix. The one joist has so many nails in it to hold it down, when it moves again, they will become deadly projectiles.

I worry about the house and will soon have to move out. The windows are so racked, the wind sails through on the sides. I have been told by an inspector that the house could sit at the brink for a while or it could move and/or crack in one fell swoop. not very comforting.

On the up side since the builder put in that super duper insulation strip on the front door (why fix the door when you can just put a bigger strip up?) I can hold my open houses again. I also have signs in the window stating the home has structural defects and my lemons. I have lemons that I stuck mini lights in and every day at dusk, they get turned on. That may sound childish, but these are effective tools. There are only two ways to the model homes and one is past this house.

I often wonder if a pulte employee would allow one of their own to live in a house like this?

Thank you for all of your advice. If you all want to use this house as a learning tool, you are more than welcome. I continue to document and have far more pictures and will gladly speak to you on the telephone or email. After this is all over, I will become a proponent for a lemon law for homes. I am not speaking about those irritating things that happen (leaking faucets, wayward cabinet doors), but houses like this that should never have been built.

[This message has been edited by Susan Sabin (edited January 17, 2007).]

Rick Hurst
Member



Posts: 5283
From:Rockwall, TX (near Dallas)
Registered: Oct 2003

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 17, 2007 10:22 AM            

Susan,

Was this home financed by the Pulte?

If so, I would take my losses and walk on this one. Document everything that has happened.

Create as much publicity as you can.

I knew of a person here in the Dallas area that let a home go back to the lender due to many problems with the home.

He bought another home within the year and the lender he went through gave him no grief he said other than paying 1/2 point over the rate at that time. To me that would be better than to keep sinking money into a headache.

Rick

Susan Sabin
New Member


Posts: 6
From:Lenexa, KS
Registered: Dec 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 17, 2007 11:10 AM            

Rick. Pulte did hold the mortgage. Even though the president of pulte mortgage and the CEO of pulte (Bloomington, MI) knew of the problems (I sent them certified letters explaining the problems) and the worth of this house (Appraisal value $0) they sold the loan to another lender.

I did send a certified letter to the new lender telling them about the situation and that the house was not worth the mortgage. I told them that once I cannot live in the house, I will no longer make payments. When I told them this, you could have heard a pin drop. The guy told me no one has ever told him they wouldn't pay their mortgage. (oh well, there is a first time for everything) Their attorneys tried to get Pulte to buy back the loan. However they have an air tight agreement in that unless the house is in litigation, pulte will not buy the loan back. What makes me think the new lender wasn't thinking when they drew up this agreement, NO house that pulte holds the mortgage (or any other mortgage for that fact (unless it is FHA or VA)) can go into litigation because of the binding arbitration clause in the sales contract. So Pulte has them by the well, you all get the picture. If I were a betting woman, I would bet the new lender is evaluating their agreement with pulte in regard to buying their loans. I also informed this new lender there are other people in the development that have structural issues.

If and/or when I walk I lose $150,000, if and/or when they foreclose I can't buy another house for 4 years and my credit rating goes into the negative. This is no small price to pay. However, I am not giving up and pulte will buy this house back. I know pulte's unwillingness to handle this problem and honor their warranty (cough-cough) have caused concern in the community. I know my open houses, web site, and my stint on television among other things have hurt them in their pocket. They have almost 650 more houses to sell in this subdivision. That is a lot of houses and a lot of money.

Jerry Peck
Member





Posts: 11413
From:Ormond Beach, Florida
Registered: Feb 2003

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 18, 2007 07:38 AM            

"NO house that pulte holds the mortgage (or any other mortgage for that fact (unless it is FHA or VA)) can go into litigation because of the binding arbitration clause in the sales contract."

That does not stop litigation.

It is just one hurdle to jump over, then go for it.

What are the consequences of litigation? That Pulte won't follow through and do an repairs? Seems like there is nothing (or at least not much) to lose with litigation.

The first way to jump that hurdle (binding arbitration) is to pull out your contract and read it carefully, then think about if Pulte fulfilled their *obligation* to you to deliver on 'merchantability' - that the product will perform as they sold it to perform.

By the way, builders (especially large builders) consider their houses 'product', think of your house as a *defective product* - there are a lot of laws out there which address *defective products* and merchantability.

From m-w.com: 'merchantability'

merchantable
One entry found for merchantable.

Main Entry: mer·chant·able
Pronunciation: 'm&r-ch&n-t&-b&l
Function: adjective
: of commercially acceptable quality : SALABLE
- mer·chant·abil·i·ty /"m&r-ch&n-t&-'bi-l&-tE/ noun

------------------
Jerry Peck
Ormond Beach
(i.e., Daytona Beach area)

===================================

Books-Reports-Scheduling-Tools

Shane Pouch
Member


Posts: 135
From:Olathe, KS
Registered: Feb 2005

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted January 19, 2007 04:21 PM         

Susan,

It's a crying shame what you are experiencing! My heart goes out to you.

It's interesting that while I was reading through this thread (with a local KC radio station playing on my handy dandy MP3 player), I heard a Pulte radio ad offering $20k to $40k off any of their homes (or "products" as Jerry so aptly stated) here in the KC area. The way I interpret this is that their "product" has been overpriced previously. Go figure... You can read their most recent press releases in their website press room to see the nice piles of money they make.

By the way, one of my biggest pet peeves with "builders" is that they don't build homes, the people who buy their houses build the homes! I digress...

Sidebar: You may not know this, but in Kansas builders do not have to be licensed. Johnson County has licensing for builders, but I don't know much about that system. Inspectors in Kansas aren't licensed either (there is much debate over whether we should be, and surprise, surprise the builders coalition thinks we should!). Stories like your story speak so much louder to why builders should be licensed far sooner than inspectors should. Licensing builders would provide far more consumer protection than any licensing of inspectors ever could.

Keep up your good fight - it is noble. I hope everything works out for you in the end.

------------------
Shane in KC
"Deal Killer"? Nope...just an ASP (assisted suicide provider)!

===================================

Books-Reports-Scheduling-Tools

Susan Sabin
New Member


Posts: 6
From:Lenexa, KS
Registered: Dec 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 15, 2007 11:16 AM            

My house and I made it to the national news. There is an article in the March 2007 issue of Money magazine. Please check it out.

The link to the online magazine is:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/13/magazines/moneymag/construction.moneymag/index.htm?postversion=2007021413

Rick Hurst
Member



Posts: 5283
From:Rockwall, TX (near Dallas)
Registered: Oct 2003

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 15, 2007 12:11 PM            

Susan,

National news on your problems with your new home is maybe the "kicker" needed to get Pulte to treat you right.

With their representative stating your house was constructed as well of the other homes in the same area makes them look worse in my opinion.

I wish you the best.

RIck

Mike Schulz
Member


Posts: 545
From:Fuquay Varina, NC
Registered: Jan 2003

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 15, 2007 02:58 PM            

I Couldn't find your article by that link. I guess we have to wait till March?

Jim Luttrall
Member


Posts: 558
From:Allen, TX
Registered: Feb 2004

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 15, 2007 03:12 PM            

The link works for me. Recommends independant inspections in a couple of places. Pulte said the cause was expansive soils. You would think they would have done a soil test...
At least the fix is pretty easy, just put in 40 or so steel piers and a suspended basement slab... well, maybe not that easy.
Jim

Susan Sabin
New Member


Posts: 6
From:Lenexa, KS
Registered: Dec 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 16, 2007 12:19 PM            

Here is another link. This will take you to the table of contents for the march issue.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/07/magazines/moneymag/march_toc.moneymag/in dex.htm?postversion=2007021513

Scroll down to almost the bottom and you will see the link - Shoddy construction.

However, if you don't buy the magazine you will miss my picture.

[This message has been edited by Susan Sabin (edited February 16, 2007).]

Susan Sabin
New Member


Posts: 6
From:Lenexa, KS
Registered: Dec 2006

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 16, 2007 12:22 PM            

Rick. I agree with you. If the other homes were built as well, what do they have to look forward to.

The bottom line is they didn't test the soil. So therefore the foundation was not designed and engineered to withstand an expansive soil environment. Therefore the foundation failed, which is a structural defect.

However, I am being told by Pulte that all of this is cosmetic. I-joists, I-beams and posts and the basement floor are only cosmetic and not structural.

Jerry Peck
Member





Posts: 11413
From:Ormond Beach, Florida
Registered: Feb 2003

Sponsors keep
InspectionNews.com FREE.
Have you clicked on a
banner ad today?

If you don't click,
who will?

posted February 16, 2007 01:12 PM            

Susan,

"However, I am being told by Pulte that all of this is cosmetic. I-joists, I-beams and posts and the basement floor are only cosmetic and not structural."

Tell them that, to some degree, you agree with them ... that cosmetic means "pretty" ... and that the I-joists, I-beams, posts and basement floor are "pretty" much what keeps a house standing, and that these are "pretty" much NOT doing their job, which puts it PAST being "cosmetic".

------------------
Jerry Peck
Ormond Beach
(i.e., Daytona Beach area)

===================================

Books-Reports-Scheduling-Tools