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Topic:   Railings needed - 626 visits (2 today, 4 this week)

Frank Bombardiere
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From:Oklahoma City, OK
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posted March 13, 2007 06:02 PM            

Usually when I see a retaining wall, there is a fence because of a property line etc. Today I ran across one that stair-steps the back yard. I would think it requires railings. What say you? This is a new construction home that has had the certificate of occupancy approved. The drop is about 5ft. I know it should have one for safety reasons, but do not know which code would pertain. Click for photo (96595 Bytes)

Jerry Peck
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posted March 13, 2007 06:25 PM            

I also see you are losing dirt down into the space behind the retaining wall. Either it was not compacted properly, or its leaking soil out through it.

Yes, with just a little technical reading and leaning into the curve.

From the IRC. (bold is mine)
- R312.1 Guards. Porches, balconies, ramps or raised floor surfaces located more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 36 inches (914 mm) in height. Open sides of stairs with a total rise of more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below shall have guards not less than 34 inches (864 mm) in height measured vertically from the nosing of the treads. Porches and decks which are enclosed with insect screening shall be equipped with guards where the walking surface is located more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below.

Now, the question becomes - Does the code apply to that?

So we now must go to Scope and Purpose

- R101.2 Scope. The provisions of the International Residential Code for One- and Two-family Dwellings shall apply to the construction, alteration, movement, enlargement, replacement, repair, equipment, use and occupancy, location, removal and demolition of detached one- and two-family dwellings and townhouses not more than three stories above-grade in height with a separate means of egress and their accessory structures.

- R101.3 Purpose. The purpose of this code is to provide minimum requirements to safeguard the public safety, health and general welfare through affordability, structural strength, means of egress facilities, stability, sanitation, light and ventilation, energy conservation and safety to life and property from fire and other hazards attributed to the built environment.

Now we go to some definitions.

- ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure not greater than 3,000 square feet (279 m2) in floor area, and not over two stories in height, the use of which is customarily accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and which is located on the same lot.

- STRUCTURE. That which is built or constructed.

Well, that was is not a natural phenomenon, it was *built or constructed*, and it is *located on the same lot*, and it's use is *incidental to that of the dwelling* ...

You make the call.

I would say 'Yes.', however, there are others who would say 'No.'. I know, because we've been through this before.

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Jerry Peck
Ormond Beach
(i.e., Daytona Beach area)

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Frank Bombardiere
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From:Oklahoma City, OK
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posted March 13, 2007 06:48 PM            

Thanks Jerry, I will give it a try. Here are a couple of other things the AHJ approved. Click for photo (30810 Bytes) Click for photo (37767 Bytes) Click for photo (75462 Bytes) Click for photo (58296 Bytes)

Nice eh?

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"If it weren't for the lawyers, we would never need them."

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David Banks
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posted March 13, 2007 07:23 PM         

State Building Code in Mass. says this.
RETAINING WALLS: GUARDS: Where retaining walls with differences in grade level in either side of the wall in excess of four feet are located closer than two feet to a walk, path, parking lot or driveway on the high side such retaining walls shall be provided with guards.

That gives me the ammo I need.
Dave

Richard Stanley
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posted March 14, 2007 08:53 AM            

I would call it that it needed a railing. Let them decide. Thats better than not telling them.

Frank Kunselman
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From:Oak Ridge, TN
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posted March 14, 2007 09:19 AM            

This has been a topic of discussion in our Bldg Official Assoc. also. The concensus here was with regard to a walking surface..."A paved, noticeably marked path of travel", it would require railings. Since there is no marked path or paving, it would not be required.

Believe it or not there are some 12 to 15 foot walls in E Tenn that have 6 ft or less of yard separation from the driveway paving turnaround for side load garages with no rails...and not a level drive. They would make a great winter ski jump...scary.

Jerry McCarthy
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posted March 14, 2007 10:57 AM            

I call those “Darwin Hazards” and since the danger is so blinking obvious I don't think we should be applying codes to help protect folks from such. This is a general statement and if you feel it's your duty to point out the obvious then you can easily add to your report a "should be noted section........."

Jerry P, do the home inspectors in Florida include warning comments in their reports about potential gator attacks in homes backing up to channels containing those mean puppy eaters?

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Jerry McCarthy
San Mateo, CA

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Jerry Peck
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posted March 14, 2007 12:10 PM            

Jerry M.,

Naw, people build there and tie their puppies to a chain for gator bait, then they just go out and 'catch' their gator, I hear they make tasty fixin's.

That's be akin to telling someone buying in CA that, you know, this IS earthquake country ... but they already knew that.

Maybe you guys should tell 'em 'Build over there, that's on 'the other side' of the fault line, it will be waterfront property at some point in time'.

------------------
Jerry Peck
Ormond Beach
(i.e., Daytona Beach area)

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Frank Bombardiere
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posted March 14, 2007 07:19 PM            

Jerry M, I agree with your statement, however, this being new construction, I was wondering what code if any would require a railing. These folks have a 4 yr old that will be playing in the back yard, so I was just trying to help them get one out of the builder if possible.

Mike Huppi
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From:Aloha Oregon
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posted March 25, 2007 07:37 PM            

Code or no code it needs a railing to be safe.

Mike- HT Portland Or.

Richard Moore
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posted March 25, 2007 08:06 PM            

I'd say that the sod adequately qualifies as a "walking surface" for common sense safety. I guess the choice is railing or at least two feet of clearly demarked planting area. Even then, you would need to be careful when weeding.

Question...are there any steps to the lower section or are you just supposed to jump?

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Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle
www.rainspect.com

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