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Author Topic:   Retaining walls. - 827 visits (1 today, 1 this week)
Ken Larson
Member

Posts: 215
From:Austin, TX
Registered: May 2004

posted March 05, 2005 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Larson   Click Here to Email Ken Larson     Edit/Delete Message
Anyone come across something like this?

I'm no engineer, but I'd say this wall is insufficient to hold back the amount of soil behind it. New home construction.

I recommended the builder provide the buyer with the engineering reports stating this wall is adequeate and to outline IN WRITING what remedies would be available should this wall fail.

I also recommended that a sufficient retaining wall be constucted at the front of the property. Kinda seems to be a no brainer. But the landscapers were there at the time of inspection just laying sod over the whole works. Didn't plan on putting in a front retainer wall at all.

This just looks like a disaster waiting to happen.

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Ken

Susan Cieslewicz
Member

Posts: 1253
From:Lake Villa, Il
Registered: Sep 2002

posted March 05, 2005 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Susan Cieslewicz   Click Here to Email Susan Cieslewicz     Edit/Delete Message
Ken,

That was a great call; that definitely needs an engineered design!!! (And hopefully the engineer was out to inspect the work as it was being done to be assured that all the draintile and supports were being installed properly).

Certainly wouldn't back down on getting all that in writing if I was the buyer!! You're absolutely correct that it could be disasterous.

Sue

Jim Modzeleski
Member

Posts: 263
From:Greenville, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 05, 2005 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Modzeleski   Click Here to Email Jim Modzeleski     Edit/Delete Message
It should all come out in the wash

Jerry Peck
Member




Posts: 4283
From:Pembroke Pines, FL
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 05, 2005 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Peck   Click Here to Email Jerry Peck     Edit/Delete Message
That is what those are made for, and, if installed and tied back properly or constructed properly, those retaining walls should be okay.

That said, I frequently point things out to my client and tell them "If done properly, it should be okay, but there is no way I can tell you anything about it other then 'Yep, that's a retaining wall and it is white.', so have the builder's engineers provide documentation that it IS right."

Check these out.
http://www.masonrymagazine.com/2-03/blocks.html
http://www.ncma.org/use/srw.html
http://www.ftgu.net/Products/products.html (click on the 'photo' links at the end of each block style text)
http://www.nicolock.com/nicdec.html
http://www.retainingwalldesign.com/retaining_wall_design_masonry_srw_gravity_wall.htm

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Jerry Peck
South Florida

Don Matthews
Member

Posts: 202
From:Willow Springs, NC
Registered: Jan 2005

posted March 06, 2005 05:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Don Matthews   Click Here to Email Don Matthews     Edit/Delete Message
Ken,

Looking at the first picture you posted, the hill at the corner has already began sliding, albiet slowly. If you will look at the angle of the tree growth, you'll notice that the evergreens are leaning quite noticeably - recent sliding. The small tree in the foreground has started to correct the way in which it is growing by tring to right itself (notice the "elbow" in the trunk about 18 inches up from the ground) - evidence of slower, creeping movement.

I actually have concerns that there may in fact be reason to believe that the entire lot may one day end up in the intersection. I would definately have a geo-engineer out to give this home and property a thorough going over before closing if I were the purchaser.

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-DON-

* Remember, it wasn't raining when Noah started building the ark *

[This message has been edited by Don Matthews (edited March 06, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Don Matthews (edited March 06, 2005).]

Russel Ray
Member

Posts: 1846
From:San Diego, California
Registered: May 2002

posted March 09, 2005 02:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russel Ray   Click Here to Email Russel Ray     Edit/Delete Message
We have thousands of retaining walls like that here in San Diego. Rarely are they "engineered."

Usually the local seasonal workers from south of the border put them up. We have a great supply of local seasonal workers from south of the border hanging out at Home Depot every morning, which, coincidentally, has a great supply of retaining wall blocks just like those.

They are alongside the freeways (where they probably were engineered by CalTrans engineers) and alongside the streets holding back houses (where they probably were engineered by Mr. Weekend Warrior).

Hmmmmmmmmm. I think I shall "engineer" a wall for the left front corner of my property. I need a new outdoors project. LOL

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited March 09, 2005).]

Richard Rushing
Member

Posts: 1904
From:Duncanville, Tx.
Registered: Oct 2003

posted March 09, 2005 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Richard Rushing   Click Here to Email Richard Rushing     Edit/Delete Message
quote:

We have thousands of retaining walls like that here in San Diego. Rarely are they "engineered."
Usually the local seasonal workers from south of the border put them up. We have a great supply of local seasonal workers from south of the border hanging out at Home Depot every morning, which, coincidentally, has a great supply of retaining wall blocks just like those.

Hey, Russ... that might help to explain alot of the mud-slides in CA., right??!!

Rich

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R. Rushing
Duncanville, Tx.

[This message has been edited by Richard Rushing (edited March 09, 2005).]

Russel Ray
Member

Posts: 1846
From:San Diego, California
Registered: May 2002

posted March 09, 2005 07:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russel Ray   Click Here to Email Russel Ray     Edit/Delete Message
One might think. Actually, however, no.

Retaining walls are not for the ritzy areas because they are too unsightly for those upscale homes. Without retaining walls to hold back the mud, well, one has mudslides. Kind of a big DUH! to me.

Well, which is more unsightly? (1) A retaining wall holding up a house or (2) A house that now is in someone else's back yard down the hills a way?

[This message has been edited by Russel Ray (edited March 09, 2005).]

Rick Hurst
Member


Posts: 2551
From:Rowlett, TX
Registered: Oct 2003

posted March 09, 2005 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Hurst   Click Here to Email Rick Hurst     Edit/Delete Message
These folks must have liked the look of retaining walls.

Click for photo (72617 Bytes)

Russel Ray
Member

Posts: 1846
From:San Diego, California
Registered: May 2002

posted March 09, 2005 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Russel Ray   Click Here to Email Russel Ray     Edit/Delete Message
Or they saw some pictures of houses sliding down hillsides and decided they wanted theirs to stay put.

Mike Schulz
Member

Posts: 183
From:Fuquay Varina, NC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted March 10, 2005 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Schulz   Click Here to Email Mike Schulz     Edit/Delete Message
Here is a driveway that would work well for these homes.
Click for photo (61723 Bytes)

Bruce Breedlove
Member

Posts: 513
From:Pikes Peak Region
Registered: Mar 2003

posted March 10, 2005 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bruce Breedlove   Click Here to Email Bruce Breedlove     Edit/Delete Message

Mike,

That is incredible. Does your area not have a maximum grade for a driveway?

Bob White
Member

Posts: 21
From:Cartersville, GA
Registered: Dec 2004

posted March 10, 2005 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bob White   Click Here to Email Bob White     Edit/Delete Message
Mike -

You altered that photo didn't you?

I can see the buyers lining up for those houses now!

Try opening those doors without an automatic opener!

Jim Modzeleski
Member

Posts: 263
From:Greenville, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 10, 2005 06:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Modzeleski   Click Here to Email Jim Modzeleski     Edit/Delete Message
Bob,
I think you are right or else they would have curbs you could park against or at least no parking signs.
Think of the basketball games in those driveways.

Mike Schulz
Member

Posts: 183
From:Fuquay Varina, NC
Registered: Jan 2003

posted March 10, 2005 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Schulz   Click Here to Email Mike Schulz     Edit/Delete Message
A friend of mine email that picture to me a couple of years agao. I have no idea where it came from.Your front end of the car would hit the driveway before you started the incline and If you drove up that driveway you would go right through the ceiling.I would think the sidewalk would be closer to the road and the dirt grade would be higher to that point........Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike Schulz (edited March 10, 2005).]

Jim Modzeleski
Member

Posts: 263
From:Greenville, Michigan
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 20, 2005 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Modzeleski   Click Here to Email Jim Modzeleski     Edit/Delete Message
Here's a couple rataining walls.
Click for photo (34013 Bytes)
Click for photo (47067 Bytes)


They say schools are short on cash. Who needs books when you have blocks

Gunnar Alquist
Member

Posts: 517
From:Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted March 20, 2005 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gunnar Alquist   Click Here to Email Gunnar Alquist     Edit/Delete Message
The standard around here is that you can typically install a retaining wall without engineering as long as it is less than 4 feet high and does not hold back a surcharge (slope).

I wonder, when you do the terracing that I saw in some of the pics that were posted, does this bypass the 4'/no surcharge rule (assuming individual walls that are less than 4' high)? Any thoughts?

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Gunnar

Jerry Peck
Member




Posts: 4283
From:Pembroke Pines, FL
Registered: Feb 2003

posted March 25, 2005 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Peck   Click Here to Email Jerry Peck     Edit/Delete Message
The angle of repose for that soil type would come into play, but, to me, the lower retaining wall is holding back ALL of the higher ground behind it (technically limited to the angle of repose, of course, but when that gets saturated during heavy rains, the angle of repose will change).

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Jerry Peck
South Florida

mark ferrell
Member

Posts: 20
From:Marietta, Georgia
Registered: Dec 2002

posted March 28, 2005 04:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mark ferrell   Click Here to Email mark ferrell     Edit/Delete Message
Jerry is right in regards to the angle of repose. Also, the 4 basic elements of a retaining wall are solid base, good drainage, granular backfill, and geogrid reinforcement. One cannot tell from the photos what's under the stone overlayment. Is it poured concrete? Is it cbc? How deep is the base into the ground? Was a soil sample taken? The first thing to do is to get an engineer to do a soil sample. From that you will be able to determine how deep the base/foundation of the wall must be. There is an excellent article written on retaining walls in the Journal of Light Construction Sept. 2003 issue. Get an engineer on this one though!

Jim Zborowski
Member

Posts: 42
From:Peru, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2003

posted March 31, 2005 05:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Zborowski   Click Here to Email Jim Zborowski     Edit/Delete Message
ok, I gotta know...............how would you get a car in those garages. Seems they would hang up trying to pull in.

Rick Hurst
Member


Posts: 2551
From:Rowlett, TX
Registered: Oct 2003

posted March 31, 2005 05:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Hurst   Click Here to Email Rick Hurst     Edit/Delete Message
Jim,

Thats a photoshopped picture of the sloped driveway.

Rick

Jim Zborowski
Member

Posts: 42
From:Peru, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2003

posted March 31, 2005 05:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim Zborowski   Click Here to Email Jim Zborowski     Edit/Delete Message
Good thing. Had a house three doors down from me actually had a drive like that, they used to drive at an angle to get in and out. Forgot to zig zag once and hung the car up on its bumpers at the bottom. Funny part is, the guy that owned and designed the subdivision has been a civil eng. for 35 years.

Erby Crofutt
Member

Posts: 896
From:Georgetown, Kentucky
Registered: Mar 2002

posted March 31, 2005 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Erby Crofutt   Click Here to Email Erby Crofutt     Edit/Delete Message
15 minute inspection, $100.00.

House had a steeeeeep driveway leading down to the garage. Slope ended two feet from the garage door.

Older gentleman with a handicapped wife and a lift equipped mini-van.

We walked down the driveway to the front of the garage. I asked him if he had tried to get his van into the garage. He said no. I suggested that this would be a good time to try. He pulled his van down the driveway and the bumper hung on the garage slab before his wheels left the slope.

Inspection over. Couldn't get the van into the garage.

45 days later I did another one for him that he could get it into.

If I hadn't had to drive 30 minutes to get there, I probably wouldn't have accepted the money he insisted I take.

------------------
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections & Kentucky Radon Testing
Georgetown, Kentucky

www.b4uclose.com

[This message has been edited by Erby Crofutt (edited March 31, 2005).]

Rick Hurst
Member


Posts: 2551
From:Rowlett, TX
Registered: Oct 2003

posted April 01, 2005 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Hurst   Click Here to Email Rick Hurst     Edit/Delete Message
On homes that have grades supported by retaining walls is there a recommendation of any sort on railings for safety?

Had a home today that had a retaining wall at least 8ft. high that a person could be seriously injured if you fell from this wall.

Just envisioning having family or company over and the kids are outside in the night playing chase or running through the yard and run directly off this wall.

Gunnar Alquist
Member

Posts: 517
From:Santa Rosa, CA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted April 01, 2005 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gunnar Alquist   Click Here to Email Gunnar Alquist     Edit/Delete Message
Rick,

I have often wondered that too. I don't address railings unless there is a patio, deck or walkway in the same area. At some point I figure that people just have to take some responsibility for themselves.

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Gunnar

Jerry Peck
Member




Posts: 4283
From:Pembroke Pines, FL
Registered: Feb 2003

posted April 01, 2005 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Peck   Click Here to Email Jerry Peck     Edit/Delete Message
We used to have it in the South Florida Building Code and the Standard Building Code, but I was never able to find a requirement for that in the IRC.

We still have that requirement in the Florida Building Code, but only in the HVHZ (High Velocity Hurricane Zones - Dade and Broward counties).

Same requirement is for sea walls, fountains, etc., unless the lower level is water. That means (down here) that if the sea wall is built back beyond the lowest low tide mark, the sea wall needs to have a railing.

Like this one.

(another view of it)

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Jerry Peck
South Florida

Rick Hurst
Member


Posts: 2551
From:Rowlett, TX
Registered: Oct 2003

posted April 01, 2005 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Hurst   Click Here to Email Rick Hurst     Edit/Delete Message
This is the one I'm talking of.
Click for photo (70247 Bytes)

Wen Myrick
Member

Posts: 495
From:Sacramento Ca.
Registered: May 2004

posted April 02, 2005 02:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wen Myrick   Click Here to Email Wen Myrick     Edit/Delete Message
Ken,

Did you noice the mature landscaping already leaning toward the lower level driveway? Calling that one was very smart on your part..
Retaining wall may be newer, I don't know the details... When you have mature trees and shrubs leaning forward like in your pic.. it's due to one of 2 reasons...
#1. the root structures were torn during the install of the retaining wall and cutting of the road.
#2. The soil is failing to hold, and in time the retaining wall will fail as well.

I'm glad I didn't have to inspect any of the hillside homes down south from me...

Not into slides
~Wen~

Jerry Peck
Member




Posts: 4283
From:Pembroke Pines, FL
Registered: Feb 2003

posted April 02, 2005 05:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Peck   Click Here to Email Jerry Peck     Edit/Delete Message
Rick,

Things ain't square.

------------------
Jerry Peck
South Florida

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