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Topic:   to reinspect or not to reinspect... that is the question - 580 visits (1 today, 2 this week)

Matthew Barnicle
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From:Tampa, Fl
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posted February 19, 2007 12:04 PM            

I got a request from a client to reinspect a property after the builder made some repairs. I want to accomodate, but I am hesitant. I worry that my reinspect is like me saying that the repair is sufficient. When deficiencies are found, my report always recommends repair as needed by a licensed contractor. The licensed contractor that repaired the items is the builder, who is the one who screwed up in the first place. So, I understand my client wanting independent verification. I am worried because some of the items are as follows:
1) Truss gusset plate was not attached/loose to truss framing members.

So a truss engineer has to specify that repair. I would not want to say a repair was sufficient without seeing the engineer's specifications.

2) Truss to wall anchor straps which were offset (horizontally) by a couple of inches between the truss and the wall

I only sampled one or two of these because the insulation had to be pulled back and it was at the roof eave and very difficult to get at. So, on re-inspect I would have to view each one to truly verify a proper repair.

3) Roof leak on a tile roof

The only reason I was able to find the leak is because it was raining cats and dogs for two days prior and the sheathing was wet as viewed from the attic crawl. No way to verify a proper repair. No way to even view the repair visually (tile roof).

Would anyone or does anyone do re-inspections? If so, how do you disclaim this type of liability?

Scott Patterson
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posted February 19, 2007 01:06 PM            

I do re-inspections on new construction all of the time. Not a big deal in my book. You just have to have confidence in your work and knowledge. You just have to report what you see or don't see. If the roof is not leaking you need to say it was not leaking, but it was not raining either. Just spell it all out in your report. I don't try to disclaim everything, only what I can't see and why!

Now on pre-existing housing stock I think that it is an increase of ones liability. One of the reasons I charge half of the original inspection fee and require receipts from professionals who have done the work.

[This message has been edited by Scott Patterson (edited February 19, 2007).]

Jerry Peck
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posted February 19, 2007 03:10 PM            

When I called for a structural (or truss) engineer, I specified that the engineer provide two engineering letters: 1) design appropriate repairs; 2) state that the repairs have been made in accordance with the engineering design.

That solved the problem you are having.

No, I *would NOT* go out and re-inspect the truss repairs, or, if I were to, I would advise my client that, sure, I can see if the repairs were done or not, but *my report will state to have the engineer who designed the repairs to re-inspect them and issue a letter stating that the repairs were made in accordance with the engineering design*, and explain that the difference between what I say and what I am recommending is that 'all I am saying is someone did something', the engineer is saying that 'whoever did this did it correctly' - BIG difference.

Same for the roof leak - ALL *I* can say is 'Yep, somebody did something.', and then recommend you get a warranty from the roofing contractor for 5 years, which is like saying 'Yep, we fixed it, I *guarandamntee* we did it correctly.' And, if the roofing contractor hedges on the 5 years and says they cannot warrant it, well, that is your answer on the roof repair right there ... IF it is not good enough for the roofing contractor, it is not good enough for me, and should not be good enough for you.

The liability bag I'm holding - empty. The liability - all in their hands.

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Jerry Peck
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Nick Ostrowski
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posted February 19, 2007 03:51 PM            

Matt, you're right to be hesitant to do a reinspect. By calling for repairs by the appropriate professionals in your inspection report, you have passed the liability on to those parties. Go back and you are signing off on their work. It's the last-man-in principle.

I have done reinspects in the past but got away from them as I started to feel uncomfortable for all the reasons you stated. Also, if you carry E&O, you may want to check to see if provider covers you for partial inspections. If they don't, then your decision is easy.

Gunnar Alquist
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posted February 19, 2007 06:21 PM         

Matthew,

I do occasionally perform reinspections (not often). As both Scott and Jerry said, I will note that repairs were made (if I can verify). However, I will state limitations and make note that I am NOT verifying engineering and that the engineer or roofing contractor should provide the proper documentation.

Jack Feldmann
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posted February 20, 2007 06:08 PM            

I used to do re-inspections all the time. Didn't charge enough.

Then I found out my E&O provider will not cover me for re-inspections. I guess I just didn't read my policy close enough before.

It has been a rough road telling people (especially past clients) that I can't go back anymore. I've had a couple sign a release that took away any liability. They just wanted me to look at the repairs. I'm still working on turning people down.

Yesterday I got a call from a seller, then the buyers agent, wanting me to go back and identify (by spray paint) EVERY joist and beam that needed to be replaced/repaired in the 4000SF crawlspace. There was EXTENSIVE damage to about a third of the floor system.

My client had crawled under the house with me, and saw first hand the damage, the extent of the damage, and how some previous repairs were attempted.

In my response, I told them that the contractor (one I have used on my own house and trust) was fully capable of determining the extent of the damage, and how many pieces of lumber it was going t take. I also told them that since my isurance company would not cover re-inspections, I was not willing to assume that additional liability.

Today I got an e-mail where they have hired a structural engineer to do the job.

There was no way I was going to crawl under the house with a spray can and check every damn joist and beam in the house.

I also quit doing progress inspections for the same reason, insurance. This has been hard to do, since I used to do a lot of them.
JF

Ben Garrison
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posted February 23, 2007 03:07 PM            

Most E&O policies will not cover this. And that is because the scope of the policy is limited to a visual home inspection. Not the validation of someone else's repair work.

Generally speaking, when there is no pre-inspection agreement being signed, the insurance company can reserve the right to not cover the inspection. That's a good guideline when trying to figure out if you're covered.

I recognize that this is not good news for you as many insepctors probably make some decent ancillary income from these types of service. But with that extra income comes added risk.

Jerry Peck
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posted February 23, 2007 07:10 PM            

Jack,

"There was no way I was going to crawl under the house with a spray can and check every damn joist and beam in the house."

That's when you call them back and say 'I have marked the ones I feel do not need to be addressed, my re-inspection fee is $XXX.XX.' and they say 'But ... but ... you were supposed to tell us when you were coming out, when did you come out? How many did you mark?', to which you say 'I didn't have to come out and I didn't mark any. As far as I am concerned, they *ALL* need to be addressed.'

Bingo - ending in the same place it did, with the structural engineer. I just always tried to have a little humor and fun playing with them.

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Jerry Peck
Ormond Beach
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Bruce King
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posted February 23, 2007 08:14 PM            

Does FREA insurance cover re-inspections for anyone here?

I have in my agreement that it also applies to re-inspections so I think I'm covered since FREA has a copy of my agreement.

I never sign off on any type of leaks, mold cleanup, flashing repairs or anything that is not 100 percent visible and correct.

Eric Shuman
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posted February 24, 2007 06:17 AM         

Bruce,

You should email Ben Garrison (see his post above). He is with FREA and can probably answer your question.

Thanks,

Eric

Jack Feldmann
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posted February 24, 2007 07:11 PM            

Jerry,
I could have told them to look for my screwdriver marks whee I probed for damage. It was on just about every one at one end of the house.

As much as I would like to have fun, I thought it better to go the way I did.
JF

Jerry Peck
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posted February 24, 2007 07:53 PM            

Jack,

"As much as I would like to have fun, I thought it better to go the way I did."

And you were right to do it that way, of course.

It's just that sometimes they need to be slapped up-side the head with the proverbial 2X4 to make them think straight. That 2X4 is good for more than just garage door operators.

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Jerry Peck
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RobertSmith
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posted March 01, 2007 02:30 PM            

Hmmmm....this post got me to thinking.

When I do a "builders' warranty" inspection, I tell me clients (and sign an agreement) I am doing a full property inspection based on the TRECs' SOP and cosmetic inspection is not included.

My rationale MY CLIENT is that things can and do go south in a years' time so a property inspection is a good thing.

My rationale, TO MYSELF, is that I get a second time to get it the pre-sale inspection right.

So, my question is: Based on my definition of a "builders' warranty" inspection, would that be a "re-inspection" if I did the pre-sale inspection?

Ben Garrison
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posted March 01, 2007 03:12 PM            

If you're going to do a re-inspection, I'd suggest having some verbiage in your PIA that is similar to what I've quoted below.

"The inspection fee is due and payable at the time of inspection and is based on a single visit to the Building. Additional fees may be charged for subsequent visits required by the Customer or, if the inspector conducting the inspection is called upon to prepare for litigation, give testimony as a result of the inspection, or the like, such additional services are beyond the scope of this Agreement."

I was on NACHI's message board this morning and there was a thread about this same issue. That is the wording one of the inspectors has in his agreement.

Kevin Luce
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posted March 01, 2007 06:53 PM         

Try Allen Insurance. They cover Re-inspections.

You have people making repairs before they put the house on the market or you have people making repairs from the home inspection report, I personally don't see the difference. The way we inspect that item is the same.

David Banks
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posted March 01, 2007 07:44 PM         

"Try Allen Insurance. They cover Re-inspections."

Kevin. Are you sure of that? I have in front of me a copy of You Can Win-Defensive Report writing by Bob Pearson. (Last page)
" For example if you call out for a roofing contractor to further evaluate and repair problems you observed DO NOT go back out and re-inspect. If you do so you are assuming the liability exposure of the repairs........
Do not perform re-inspections unless you like to write checks or call your E&O carrier with claims."
Dave

Kevin Luce
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posted March 01, 2007 08:01 PM         

I didn't see it anywhere from the information they gave me when I renewed my policy plus I gave them a call. I recommend anyone else to do the same.

Bob Pearson also doesn't recommend it but you are covered.

[This message has been edited by Kevin Luce (edited March 01, 2007).]